Optimist Economy

Optimist Economy

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EPISODE 32: SEASON 1 FINALE

Retcon on Season One (+ Executive Orderpalooza)

Optimist Economy got its start almost exactly one year ago with a phone call that began, “Hear me out…” Thirty-two episodes later we ask, “What have we done?” Mostly we conditioned ourselves to keep our eye on the ball – the better U.S. economy and future that are possible – through a lot of very bad news days. In the background, we both moved. Kathryn kept a lot of pregnancy symptoms hidden. We incorporated a nonprofit. And somehow, we managed to drop a new episode every Tuesday. Thanks to all our listeners for being our spiritual sponsors on this journey.

EPISODE 31

How Health Insurance Got Shackled to Jobs

Why is anyone’s health insurance tied to their job? It’s because of a superintendent in Dallas, World War II wage freezes, a 1953 tax code quirk, and decades of inertia. This accident of history costs America $384 billion a year in tax breaks to corporations for providing coverage. And what do we get for that? A system that locks people in jobs they’d otherwise leave, suppresses wages of those who look “expensive to insure,” and disadvantages small businesses that can’t afford gold-level health plans. In a different historical timeline, President Harry S. Truman’s 1945 national health plan would’ve given us universal coverage, paid medical leave, and government-funded medical schools. But of course we’re not living in that timeline.

EPISODE 30

Optimist Q&A: Evidence for UBI, What to Do About Billionaires, and Where Will the U.S. Economy Be After Trump?

In the final Q&A of the season, economist Kathryn Edwards answers listener questions on recent universal basic income experiments, legislative budgeting tricks, and the value of more aggressive IRS auditing. She also explains what eradicating the minimum wage exemption might mean, particularly for disabled and incarcerated workers. We also discuss what people actually do for money when they stop job hunting. Fair warning: this one runs long and the keeping it f-bomb free resolution lasted about five minutes.

EPISODE 29

Can We Fix America’s Broken Unemployment Insurance System?

Just how broken is Unemployment Insurance? Consider this: During every recession since the 1950s, the federal government has had to step in and prop it up. Of people looking for work, only half qualify for Unemployment Insurance. And just half of those actually receive benefits. That’s what you get from a system designed mostly for factory workers nearly a century ago and then left to the heedless care of states. Benefits vary wildly by state — $235 a week in some, over $800 in others. Most states have — understandably — taken the lesson that they don’t have to fix anything because Washington will step in if the economy gets really bad. This is a scrap-it-and-start-over situation. Many solutions would be better, including a system focused on re-employment that keeps workerbots attached to the labor market, helping businesses prevent layoffs during downturns, and making job-hunting less awful.

EPISODE 28

The Ghost Recession: A Brief Economic History of Now

The economic pain that Americans experienced in 2022-23 was dubbed the “vibesession,” suggesting that negative public sentiment was out of sync with a healthy economy. But what we were truly experiencing was more like a “ghost recession.” As the Fed squeezed the economy by raising interest rates from zero to above 5% to get inflation under control, only the extraordinary circumstances of the post-pandemic economy kept unemployment low and the economy growing. But if we had a ghost recession, that also means that the nascent 2024 “ghost recovery” screeched to a halt with the radical changes to economic policy this year. Also in this episode: What it means that 911,000 fewer jobs were created from spring 2024-2025, and many metaphor try-outs.

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EPISODE 27

The Cash-for-Kids Study: Misread and Misrepresented

You might have heard recently that a years-long poverty study “found” that giving $333 monthly to kids with poor parents didn’t make a difference. But here's why that’s the wrong takeaway: The "Baby's First Years" study wasn't designed to test cash payments. It is multi-year, ongoing scientific research into how poverty affects child development. Researchers found "selective impacts on preschoolers' brain activity with possibly different impacts across brain frequency bands" — which roughly translates to "this is incredibly complicated and we're still figuring it out," not "money is useless." And yet this rigorous research got reduced to a talking point amid an ongoing policy debate on child tax credits and what it means to lift kids out of poverty.

EPISODE 26

The Case for Going Big on Paid Leave

Paid family and medical leave is a confusing mess: only 27% of private-sector workers get paid leave from their employer. Some others are covered by state programs, but those vary. The rest of us scramble to patch together short-term disability with other paid time off, if we have it. Meanwhile, the United States instead has a federal Family Medical Leave Act that protects unpaid time off. Truth is, sooner or later, nearly everyone needs time away from work to care for a sick spouse, a new baby, a dying parent, or to recover from one’s own illness or injury. And they shouldn’t have to go broke to do it. An idea this popular — supported by about 80% of Americans in polls — shouldn’t be this hard. If paid family and medical leave were added to Social Security, that would give every worker benefits that follow them across jobs and states. The infrastructure already exists. But there’s a lot of heel-dragging in Congress because expanding Social Security can’t be done before dealing with its long-term funding.

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EPISODE 25

Aren’t Free School Meals a Conservative's Dream Policy?

Free breakfast and lunch for every public school student — an idea associated more with countries like Sweden and Finland — should instead be viewed as a truly American policy that liberals and conservatives can both love. Want complete meritocracy? Then you should be furious that some kids can't focus in class or during tests because they're hungry. Want to compete globally? Eating better raises student test scores. Want to make America healthy again? Professional kitchen staff serving nutritionally balanced meals to everyone actually beats harried parents trying to cobble together a lunch sack. Want less government interference? Universal programs eliminate the invasive bureaucratic hassle of asking every student’s family about their income. School meal programs have even been found to lower grocery prices in local communities. Nine states have made free meals universal, and others have expanded access, so this ball is rolling.

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Research Studies:

Brown paper bags and ketchup as a Vegetable

EPISODE 24

Looking Beyond the Unemployment Rate

The unemployment rate has been hovering around 4.2%. But in today’s highly unsettled economy, many people feel this headline number from the Bureau of Labor Statistics doesn’t capture their economic struggles — from slow hiring to working two part-time jobs to recent graduates unable to find work in their fields. But as economist Kathryn Edwards points out, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics also measures underemployment (currently 7.9%) as well as discouraged workers and many other indicators of labor market slack. But there’s one thing the government probably should not measure, and that’s skills mismatch, or being “overqualified” for the job you have. In this episode, we also go way, way back to the Great Depression, when social workers and advocates for the unemployed fought to get the government to measure joblessness at all.

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EPISODE 23

GDP Was Never Going to Make You Happy

Gross Domestic Product is the big dog of economic numbers. But this measure of the economy’s size has massive blind spots. It ignores income inequality and citizens’ wellbeing. It rewards consumption and thus environmental degradation. Yes, it is vital to know if your economy is growing or shrinking and why. And yet maybe GDP shouldn’t be the lodestar. In fact, as economist Kathryn Edwards relays, the person who invented GDP warned us of its limitations.

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EPISODE 22

How to Actually Help Young Men Struggling in Our Economy

The "boys and men crisis" conversation set in motion following the 2024 election is now shooting off in erratic directions, leading to a lot of hand-wringing about college enrollment, long-gone factory jobs, and “loss of purpose.” Still, men’s workforce participation has been on a long, slow slide for seven decades, and it is reaching a worrying level. To address that, though, we need to have harder conversations about what truly affects young men disproportionately – things like substance abuse disorders, other addictions like gambling and video games, and criminal records.

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EPISODE 21

What You Don’t Know About Poverty

Description: About 11% of Americans have a household income that puts them below the official government threshold for poverty. Is poverty a state of being, or a risk? Are the poor people themselves the root cause of poverty? Or are they the outcome of a low-wage labor market that churns people in and out of work? Because how you diagnose the problem matters if you’re looking for solutions. Economist Kathryn Anne Edwards tackles three major misconceptions about poverty.

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BONUS EPISODE

Q&A Part 2: Working Two Jobs, Incentives vs. Handouts, the Gold Standard, and Government ROI

Economist Kathryn Edwards is back with more answers. In Part 2, she talks about who actually “lives off taxpayers,” why gold reserves aren’t a great idea any more, the importance of mobility in worker power, and whether ROI is a good measure for the work of government. If this two-parter was too much, blame the listener who said he didn’t like it when we used a timer back in May.

EPISODE 20

Q&A Part 1: Tax Philosophy, Liberal vs. Conservative Economists, Marriage vs. Poverty and More

In the first of two mailbag episodes, economist Kathryn Edwards answers questions from optimist listeners on taxation on wages vs. investments, whether student loans are regressive, how bona fide economists wind up on opposite sides of policy debates, and what it really means when a Montana Congressman calls the CBO “historically wrong.” Yeah, this episode has a long title. But there was a lot of talking. And that’s why Part 2 is coming in a few days.

EPISODE 19

A Million Reasons to Raise the Minimum Wage

The federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour hasn’t been raised since the era of flip phones. Competing bills introduced in Congress recently would set it at $15 or $17. Is that high enough, and how can we ensure it doesn’t fall so far behind again? Minimum wage debates are dominated by worry about anticipated harms to some businesses, but ignore the proven positive effects for American workers — like narrowing Black-White wage gaps. And most importantly for our resident economist Kathryn Edwards, she gets to revisit her favorite but flawed piece of legislation, the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act.

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EPISODE 18

Collective Bargaining Without the Unionization Battles

Labor unions’ public approval has been increasing since 2009, and is now at levels not seen since the 1960s. And yet rates of union membership have been falling. Today just 10% of U.S. workers are represented by a union, and below 6% in the private sector. What if there were a less adversarial way to get the worker-protection aspects of unions without the brutal shop-by-shop campaigns? Enter “sectoral bargaining,” where boards with worker, employer, and government representatives hash out wages and working conditions for occupational groups. Think all fast food workers, janitorial staff, or health care providers.

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EPISODE 17

The Tax We’re 99.93% Sure That You Will Never Pay

The Estate Tax is one that half of Americans worry about, but that affects only the richest 0.07% after they die. For nearly 25 years, the U.S. has – through loopholes and ballooning exemptions – undercut a tax that could pay for some nice things, like maybe a children’s trust fund. If we chose to just dent more big inheritances, it’d also reduce the concentration of wealth and power. In this episode, economist Kathryn Edwards gets to go way, way back to the Gilded Age and editor Robin Rauzi still loves a tax story, so the topic is a win-win as far as we are concerned.

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EPISODE 16

About That College Grad Who Can’t Find a Job…

Newly minted college graduates are having a harder time landing that first job than in recent years. Is it AI? Is college useless? Is it a crisis? (No. No. And not yet…) College graduates under 27 still have significantly lower unemployment rates (5.8%) than high school graduates of the same age (6.9%). What economist Kathryn Edwards finds worrying is that these new workers, who are typically a lagging economic indicator, may in this case be a bellwether of a weakening economy.

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EPISODE 15

Simple Immigration Economics: Bigger is Better

One in five workers in the United States was born in another country. Without them, the country’s prime-age workforce would be shrinking, and thus so would our economy. So the calumny (Terms & Conditions) directed at immigrants is at odds with the basic fact that the U.S. needs them. What about depressing wages? Research finds such a mixed bag of results that the overall effect is about zero. Indeed, if the goal is to save “American jobs” or help American workers, there are a lot more effective ways to spend $185 billion than on a massive crackdown on immigration rules.

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EPISODE 14

Why Work Requirements Don’t Work

Here’s what work requirements never accomplish: Getting more people to work and lifting them out of poverty. They are, however, very good at driving people off public benefit programs, which was their primary role during the welfare reform of 1996. Yes, Kathryn Edwards, economist/human, will tell you that in theory, people will optimize how much they work and “consume leisure” according to their preferences, and that if some people get free stuff, they’ll work less and swim at the beach more. But that effect mostly gets swallowed whole by the reality of low-wage work in America.

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EPISODE 13

The U.S. is in the Hole. Will We Stop Digging?

The national debt is $36 trillion — a panic-inducing big number. So maybe it will help to understand how the U.S. ran up that debt. We’ve blown 37% of it on tax cuts, with precious little to show for that. But 28% went to stabilize the economy during two major crises (in ’08-’09 and during the COVID pandemic), which is when you do want the federal government to pull out its credit card. Good news is we don’t have to get the debt to zero. We just need to get pointed in that direction. And for listeners who’ve been waiting for MMT (Modern Monetary Theory) to make a cameo, that moment has arrived.

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EPISODE 12

College Rules! But Student Loans are a Hot Mess!

The U.S. government makes student loans because our economy benefits enormously: Improved human capital. Higher earnings for taxpayers. Innovation and productivity gains. (Side note: Education has also been a $50 billion per year “export” because so many international students come here.) Meanwhile, colleges are basically getting blank checks for whatever tuition prices they pull out of the air. So there’s all this upside for the government and cash flowing to colleges, but student borrowers are left holding the bag. We can do better, and in a way that preserves what makes the American college experience great for students and the country.

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EPISODE 11

Optimist Lightning Round: The Economist Takes Your Questions

Kathryn answers listeners’ economic questions, with Robin’s stopwatch running. In under an hour, we cover risks to U.S. economic data, college tuition, taxes, bonds, degrowth, mortgages, tariffs vs. income taxes, wealth concentration, and why the future can’t be built on lies. Finally, for those of you not from Wisconsin, do you know how to pronounce Waukesha? Because Robin sure didn’t. And apparently it’s not Wauke$ha, either.

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EPISODE 10

The Invisible Hand Doesn’t Want to Change Diapers

Child care is exhibit A that not everything can be solved by private marketplaces. It is too expensive and too scarce — and nothing will change that fact. (Maybe you’ve heard someone say that preschool costs more than state university tuition? True in 38 states.) Even among those who think that there’s a role for the government to play in early childhood care, there are still very strong disagreements about what public support should look like and who it should go to. This is a sequel of sorts to our conversation last week about U.S. birth rates last week and the demographics that might force big policy changes in the years to come.

EPISODE 9

A Family Bill for a Shrinking U.S.

The declining birth rate in the United States is often discussed not only as a major demographic shift, but as a looming economic disaster. Ideas being pitched to the White House include a $5,000 baby bonus to new parents and (truly) giving medals to women who have a half-dozen babies. But what are the real contours of this supposed crisis? Indeed, if we haven’t done anything to remove the constraints on having kids, can we call it a crisis at all?

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EPISODE 8

Progress is a Long Game

What sparks progress? The right political conditions? Social pressure? Economic upheaval? In response to two listeners’ questions, we say… none of those and all of the above. As an example, we talk through just one bit of the New Deal in the 1930s, which was the law to limit child labor. That movement started decades earlier, and continued decades afterward. For those keeping score at home, this a sneaky third installment of Kathryn’s 68-part series on the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938.

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EPISODE 7

Paid Sick Days for Lady Gaga (and Everyone Else Too)

In the category of low-hanging policy fruit, why won’t any politician pluck the ripe, juicy goodness of federally mandated paid sick leave? About 30 million American workers not only don’t get a paid day off when they have the flu, there’s no law on the books to prevent them from being fired if they call in sick. The job-protection aspect alone is worth $2,000 a year to vulnerable working moms. Of course this also keeps communities healthier because who needs to exposed to baristas with bronchitis?

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EPISODE 6

AI Suggested Five Horrible Titles for This Episode

A recent article in the Washington Post proposed that U.S. labor data has just started to show the bite artificial intelligence is taking out of U.S. jobs — in this case, for computer programmers. Is AI going to cause mass joblessness? Silicon Valley bros like to say so. Journalists seem to think so. So what’s with Kathryn’s ho-hum reaction? The long view: The United States has seen lots of technological progress over time, but technology has been the most villainized since 1980, which is also the era of declining worker power. It’s our gutted worker protections that make periods of technological transition so painful.

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EPISODE 5

Work Rules for the Modern World

Never heard of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938? It’s why there’s a minimum wage, overtime pay, and 12-year-olds can legally have a job. It’s also due for a 21st-century update. What would these “New Work Standards” include? Let’s start with the right to request remote work, part-time schedules, or non-traditional hours. This shift would be a game-changer for folks with disabilities, parents juggling young kids, or anyone going through tough personal times. This is also a way to grow the economy by keeping people attached to the workforce. Consider this part one of what — if Kathryn has her way — will be a 63-part series on how to update the FLSA.

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EPISODE 4

Robin Loves a Tax Story

The United States is more than 20 years into a tax experiment—an era of cumulative $7 trillion in tax cuts. How’s that working out? Well, we have worsening income inequality, and public faith in the tax system is cratering. Meanwhile, every social policy is conceptualized as some kind of tax cut/credit. The question for our optimistic future is, are you ready for tax fairness if that means you don't get that deduction?

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EPISODE 3

Social Security Don’t Miss

What’s with the persistent narrative of Social Security's impending doom? Are the baby boomers draining the trust fund? Are Americans living too long? No and no. There are just two of the many misunderstandings people have about what Kathryn will tell you (for hours if you let her) is, truly, the most effective anti-poverty program in U.S. history. She’s also optimistic that Congress will make necessary reforms just before the trust fund is depleted in 2035. Which is good. Because Robin does want to be able to retire.

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BONUS EPISODE

Is This a Recession or Not?

Wouldn’t it be funny if we launched a podcast called Optimist Economy at the very moment the GPD started to slide? Nice timing, us! In this bonus episode we dive into the data that has folks spooked. We also talk about if willy-nilly tariff policy (technical economic term there) is to blame, whether a recession is more like a wildfire or a hurricane, and how a recession might affect you. Also, who gets to declare, “Recession on!” Can we squeeze an ounce of optimism out of a recession episode? We try. You be the judge.

Some of the stuff we talk about:

EPISODE 2

Elegy for the DEI Boogeyman

Rapidly changed government and corporate policies mean the era of DEI is coming to a screeching halt. But gross racial discrimination in the U.S. labor market persists. Just one example: The black unemployment rate is almost always double the white unemployment rate. In this episode we muddle through what can be said about DEI now at its funeral that wasn’t said during its lifespan.

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EPISODE 1

All We’ve Tried is Nothing!

Who are we and what in the world is an “optimist economy?”

For our first show, we (Kathryn and Robin) introduce ourselves, explain how we met, and lay out our goals for our new podcast.

We want Optimist Economy to empower listeners to understand the economy we have, but also the one we can have so they feel good about the future. The truth is, America’s best economic era is yet to come. It has to be, because there are so many good solutions out there that U.S. policymakers have never tried.

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